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New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !
http://northwestindiana.com/discussionforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7599
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Author:  Tiger1 [ Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

There is petition out to build a new high school, again. They have sweetened the deal, and added trickery to it, by including remodeling Hammond High. DO NOT SIGN THIS !!!

This project would have to go to a referendum. Elections are next year, and this could be put on the ballot. VOTE NO !!!

Have you got your tax bills yet??? Check the line item under "voter approved projects". THAT is the debt not covered by the cap. The School Board just approved an increase in your property taxes at the last meeting, for projects totalling less than $20 MILLION dollars. A house assessed at $100,000 would pay an extra $35 a year for the projects just approved. Remember the cost of the new high school? Got an extra few hundred to dole out to the SCH in taxes for this project now in the petition stage? HECK NO !!! VOTE NO AND DO NOT SIGN THE SCH PETITION !!!

Author:  Mirage [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Once again my 1st objection is that they have not done a good job of looking forward at the entire picture. Is the student population increasing or decreasing? Is the cost per sq foot and cost per pupil comparable to similar projects elsewhere? Where precisely do we need schools to be located? And if the Charter school goes forward won't there be less students in the high school system? Their assumptions are over a decade old today, yet they continue to use them for the basis of the building program plans and things have changed dramatically since then.

Second, as you say they just added to the school bill without consent which is an issue of it's own. That plus the existing debt is worth consideration. The question is what can we afford, not how can they make us pay or trick us into paying. But that seems of little concern to this bunch. I do hope the next election will bring in folks of a fresh perspective who care as much about the total cost as they claim to be for better education. So far it appears the quality of education is declining, not improving, with every additional dollar they bill us. Along that thought I would want to see a full audit and accountability of the School City. We want to know where is all that money going specifically and how much is questionable spending practices and possible shrinkage of supplies (AKA theft) before consideration of tacking on yet more debt service. Such accountability for the budget is the duty of every school board member and if some administrators or staff are dodging accountability they need to be gone regardless of what connections they have. Well actually we probably need to cut more administrative positions anyway as we've discussed since the 1st Times board began. ;)

Third, is this exactly the old rejected building plan repackaged? Sounds like it is. I wonder if it includes the $30k a pop murals to decorate the walls? :lol:

Now I will grant you that $30k here & there sounds like a drop in the bucket on a $100+ mil project but that's one way the total gets higher than it needs to be. Further those new sports fields in the plan seem overly ambitious given the general move away from physical sports. It is not out of line to consider less extra curricular activities or at least weigh student student demand for those activities. Our primary goal is to educate not to get kids to college on sports scholarship who can't read, write, or balance a checkbook.

Keep us posted Tiger! While many of us are not really opposed to having a new building there are just too many issues with this particular plan to say yes today.

Author:  sparks [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Munster has just started building their new $20 million state of the art swimming pool project. When it is completed, it will be the largest complex like this in the country. I have yet to hear a single Munster parent speak out against this project. In fact, the community has no problem investing in good facilities to educate their children.
http://www.post-trib.com/news/davich/1814895,jerry-pool-1009.article
It is here where a building will house the 50-meter by 25-yard pool, complete with six diving boards, locker rooms, a classroom for training, mechanical space, and a second-floor spectator viewing area, among other amenities.

The $20 million project, awarded to Gough, Inc. on June 19, is expected to be completed by early 2011.

The plan is to demolish two existing pools inside the high school -- which is more than 40 years old -- and the middle school, and consolidate everything into this new, energy-efficient 21st century pool.

Author:  Mirage [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Well besides the fact that the Munster school board isn't the Hammond school board and their kids actually get an education are you making the case that a new pool will improve education in Hammond or that the added expense of a new pool somehow makes the entire Hammond High rebuild plan OK just because there's a new pool involved?

Again, what I said is look at the extra curricular programs and see which ones students are even interested in. I didn't say categorically eliminate everything. That said, if it turns out that Hammond kids don't want to be on a swim team but just want a pool to relax in that's a whole different matter. The city has pools, plus the Y, plus Wolf Lake. I may be wrong but I think in Munster this would effectively be the the municipal pool so it's not the same thing at all.

Author:  sparks [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Mirage wrote:
Well besides the fact that the Munster school board isn't the Hammond school board and their kids actually get an education are you making the case that a new pool will improve education in Hammond or that the added expense of a new pool somehow makes the entire Hammond High rebuild plan OK just because there's a new pool involved?

Again, what I said is look at the extra curricular programs and see which ones students are even interested in. I didn't say categorically eliminate everything. That said, if it turns out that Hammond kids don't want to be on a swim team but just want a pool to relax in that's a whole different matter. The city has pools, plus the Y, plus Wolf Lake. I may be wrong but I think in Munster this would effectively be the the municipal pool so it's not the same thing at all.

Munster parks just finished constructing a beautiful new outdoor swimming complex for the residents. The Munster school pool is only for the use of the students. My point is the reason Munster has such a highly rated school system is the community knows the value of education and is willing to pay higher taxes for it.

Author:  Freedom Fighter [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Munsters tax rate is one half of Hammonds rate.Their schools performance is approximately twice of Hammonds scores. Who is getting the wise use of their tax dollars? Certainly not the Hammond taxpayers.

Author:  Mirage [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Freedom Fighter wrote:
Munsters tax rate is one half of Hammonds rate.Their schools performance is approximately twice of Hammonds scores. Who is getting the wise use of their tax dollars? Certainly not the Hammond taxpayers.


Well gee. Since they pay half what Hammond does maybe the solution to Hammond's educational problems is to cut the budget in half by Sparkie's reasoning of what's good for Munster is good for Hammond! :lol:

And did I read that the school was 40 years old? So much for claiming that new buildings will improve test scores or learning. ;)

Author:  Tiger1 [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Mirage wrote:
Freedom Fighter wrote:
Munsters tax rate is one half of Hammonds rate.Their schools performance is approximately twice of Hammonds scores. Who is getting the wise use of their tax dollars? Certainly not the Hammond taxpayers.


Well gee. Since they pay half what Hammond does maybe the solution to Hammond's educational problems is to cut the budget in half by Sparkie's reasoning of what's good for Munster is good for Hammond! :lol:

And did I read that the school was 40 years old? So much for claiming that new buildings will improve test scores or learning. ;)


LOL !!! Yeah, Muster still has some of their ORIGINAL buildings. GEE, by all accounts, their kids should be doing terrible on the test scores !!! :twisted: Dang, I remember when all the Munster kids had to go to Hammond High, as there was NO MUNSTER HIGH SCHOOL !!! Dang, if old buildings cause kids to fail, I am sure that NO BUILDINGS would be an educational disaster !!! (SARCASM).

The new school buildings in Hammond have done NOTHING to improve the test scores. The only thing the new buildings did was jack my taxes. :x

Author:  mattlap [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

sparks wrote:
Munster parks just finished constructing a beautiful new outdoor swimming complex for the residents. The Munster school pool is only for the use of the students. My point is the reason Munster has such a highly rated school system is the community knows the value of education and is willing to pay higher taxes for it.


Munsters per capita income is almost double Hammond's. Their education level is also much higher. And that is the reason they value education. A new school building will not change that. Change the demographics of Hammond to a higher income / higher educated population and then you can make a case for a new school.

There is no point in building a new school when you have fundamental problems with your student body.

Author:  sparks [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Tiger1 wrote:
Mirage wrote:
Freedom Fighter wrote:
Munsters tax rate is one half of Hammonds rate.Their schools performance is approximately twice of Hammonds scores. Who is getting the wise use of their tax dollars? Certainly not the Hammond taxpayers.


Well gee. Since they pay half what Hammond does maybe the solution to Hammond's educational problems is to cut the budget in half by Sparkie's reasoning of what's good for Munster is good for Hammond! :lol:

And did I read that the school was 40 years old? So much for claiming that new buildings will improve test scores or learning. ;)


LOL !!! Yeah, Muster still has some of their ORIGINAL buildings. GEE, by all accounts, their kids should be doing terrible on the test scores !!! :twisted: Dang, I remember when all the Munster kids had to go to Hammond High, as there was NO MUNSTER HIGH SCHOOL !!! Dang, if old buildings cause kids to fail, I am sure that NO BUILDINGS would be an educational disaster !!! (SARCASM).

The new school buildings in Hammond have done NOTHING to improve the test scores. The only thing the new buildings did was jack my taxes. :x

Jack your taxes? Your total property tax bill for 2008 was only $619. Give me a friggin break. It's not even like you go out and work to pay your ridiculously low tax bill since you are on the government dole.I'm the one who should be complaining because I work hard only to see my tax dollars go to support slackers like you.

Author:  LoisLane [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

sparks wrote:
Jack your taxes? Your total property tax bill for 2008 was only $619. Give me a friggin break. It's not even like you go out and work to pay your ridiculously low tax bill since you are on the government dole.I'm the one who should be complaining because I work hard only to see my tax dollars go to support slackers like you.
This must be the libelous defamation of character that you feel compelled to file a lawsuit about! Oh wait, that is YOU baiting others into another flame war...Gee, I don't know why anyone would want to stike back at a low life scumbad such as yourself...Why not take your bloated carcass over to the other board...if you fall in line (and on your knees), maybe Artie/Edge will give you your reward...scoot.

Author:  freetime [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

Well our taxes on our old house are close to $4,000 again WITH the much touted tax caps.
A big part of that is the $1,250 we are being charged for debt, primarily from the Hammond schools.
It's ridiculous!

Author:  sparks [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

LoisLane wrote:
sparks wrote:
Jack your taxes? Your total property tax bill for 2008 was only $619. Give me a friggin break. It's not even like you go out and work to pay your ridiculously low tax bill since you are on the government dole.I'm the one who should be complaining because I work hard only to see my tax dollars go to support slackers like you.
This must be the libelous defamation of character that you feel compelled to file a lawsuit about! Oh wait, that is YOU baiting others into another flame war...Gee, I don't know why anyone would want to stike back at a low life scumbad such as yourself...Why not take your bloated carcass over to the other board...if you fall in line (and on your knees), maybe Artie/Edge will give you your reward...scoot.

Hey dumbass, it isn't against the law to be honest.Since Tiger1 is worried about paying a $36 annual property tax increase, I seriously doubt she has the coin to hire an attorney for a case she couldn't win anyway. Are you trying to replace Happy Jack as the Message Board Magistrate?You're certainly dumb enough to replace him.

Author:  freetime [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

BACK TO THE TOPIC:

Tiger1 wrote:
There is petition out to build a new high school, again. They have sweetened the deal, and added trickery to it, by including remodeling Hammond High. DO NOT SIGN THIS !!!

This project would have to go to a referendum. Elections are next year, and this could be put on the ballot. VOTE NO !!!

Have you got your tax bills yet??? Check the line item under "voter approved projects". THAT is the debt not covered by the cap. The School Board just approved an increase in your property taxes at the last meeting, for projects totalling less than $20 MILLION dollars. A house assessed at $100,000 would pay an extra $35 a year for the projects just approved. Remember the cost of the new high school? Got an extra few hundred to dole out to the SCH in taxes for this project now in the petition stage? HECK NO !!! VOTE NO AND DO NOT SIGN THE SCH PETITION !!!

Author:  USMarine [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New High School Plan Revived, AGAIN !

freetime wrote:
Well our taxes on our old house are close to $4,000 again WITH the much touted tax caps.
A big part of that is the $1,250 we are being charged for debt, primarily from the Hammond schools.
It's ridiculous!



:shock:

My taxes are $1250 a year and we are going to add on to the Primary, Intermediate, Middle, and High School with our property taxes going up approx $110 a year on 3200 square feet.

I feel sorry for you guys.

:(

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