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S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
http://northwestindiana.com/discussionforum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5065		 Page 6 of 12
Author:  funnyman [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
LoisLane, your judgement on success of a school system is unfair. The teachers in D157 are not doing a lackluster job as you say. How can you say that students, who were way below grade level from Chicago school system, are not succeeding because they are still not at the State average? D157 has brought many students up to grade level and on a year to year basis have increased the School Districts ISAT test scores. Do you know anything about NCLB (no child left behind) and how tough they have made it for borderline schools and students to make AYP (annual yearly progress) when they raise the bar every year. It’s a major accomplishment that you are not recognizing nor have respect for. Statistics say it take a minimum of 3 years for a child who is below grade level to catch up. I base all my reasoning on known facts, you base your reasoning on a simple numbers on the State report card, assuming you have looked at that to justify your statements.

As far as unions and forcing them to give a little, just how would you do that? Caterpillar did that with their union about 8 years ago, the union went on strike for months. So what do you think would happen if a teacher’s union went on strike? Parents would be irate at the school board because they feel their kids should be in a classroom. Caterpillar kept their plants running by hiring scabs as the union calls them, unskilled and limited educated laborers, you can’t do that with a school system. The UAW and GM are negotiating now and the progress is slow because the unions do not want to give anything up. There are no laws that say we have to buy cars, there is a law that says we have to educated children.
Author:  chugar52 [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Who said that the teachers didn't have to give on anything? Were any of you in negotiations with the teachers union? I don't think so. I believe it is called negotiations because BOTH sides negotiate. It doesn't matter if it's the teacher's contract, the UAW contract or any other contract. Both sides give and take and that is what negotiating is. The Board made the teachers happy by giving them some of the things they wanted and the teachers make the board happy by not getting everything they wanted. There is no way any one side will get everything they want.

Funnyman is right saying that the parents would be irate with the School Board. I remember several years ago when the teachers almost went on strike. The gym was packed with people screaming because they were upset that the kids wouldn't be in school. When TFN teachers went on strike several years ago, the same thing happened. The parents were upset because the kids weren't in school.
Author:  LoisLane [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
chugar52 wrote:
Who said that the teachers didn't have to give on anything? Were any of you in negotiations with the teachers union? I don't think so. I believe it is called negotiations because BOTH sides negotiate. It doesn't matter if it's the teacher's contract, the UAW contract or any other contract. Both sides give and take and that is what negotiating is. The Board made the teachers happy by giving them some of the things they wanted and the teachers make the board happy by not getting everything they wanted. There is no way any one side will get everything they want.

Funnyman is right saying that the parents would be irate with the School Board. I remember several years ago when the teachers almost went on strike. The gym was packed with people screaming because they were upset that the kids wouldn't be in school. When TFN teachers went on strike several years ago, the same thing happened. The parents were upset because the kids weren't in school.

...and several years ago, the demographics were totally different...
Author:  chugar52 [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
I guess I don't understand what point you're making Lois. It doesn't matter what the demographics were several years ago or what they are now. The point is that if the teachers went on strike, the parents would be screaming at the Board because the kids would not be in school, just like they were when the teachers almost went on strike back in the 90's.
Author:  LoisLane [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
chugar52 wrote:
I guess I don't understand what point you're making Lois. It doesn't matter what the demographics were several years ago or what they are now. The point is that if the teachers went on strike, the parents would be screaming at the Board because the kids would not be in school, just like they were when the teachers almost went on strike back in the 90's.

You would understand my point IF your job and/or raise depended on your performance EVERY year. If you performed at below average you'd be out on your butt, the first year.
Author:  funnyman [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
LoisLane wrote:
chugar52 wrote:
I guess I don't understand what point you're making Lois. It doesn't matter what the demographics were several years ago or what they are now. The point is that if the teachers went on strike, the parents would be screaming at the Board because the kids would not be in school, just like they were when the teachers almost went on strike back in the 90's.

You would understand my point IF your job and/or raise depended on your performance EVERY year. If you performed at below average you'd be out on your butt, the first year.


I get paid for performance and I’m evaluated every year, so perhaps I understand what you mean. But I also understand school systems, student abilities, parental involvement, student mobility and how all that can equate to the performance of students. I get evaluated on my job and I control every action I take and control my own destiny oh, and when I need to depend on others, it’s adults who have the same goals as I do and are also paid for performance. A teacher, no matter what their skills are, do not control 100% of student achievement, not even close. If you have students with low abilities, or students who have parents who don’t get involved with their needs in school, or students who have come from school systems who do not care about their standards, the chances are there will be some who bring down the scores. As the mobility stabilizes after at least 3 years, scores will naturally improve because the kids have now been in a learning environment and district that cares as the kids catch up to reach their grade levels. How would you like a job where your raise or job is on the line based on the performance of kids!! Again, you are judging the school based on the state average instead of improved year over year performance within the school district. I do however wish there was a way to judge and reward the better teachers as is the model for most businesses, but the formula for doing that would be an impossible mission to figure out and administer. Teachers know the students and which ones have the best abilities, can you imagine the infighting within the teaching ranks to have the best students in their classrooms?
Author:  oldtimer [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Congratulations Dist.157 school board.....lowering the academic standards got you a State Basketball Championship
Author:  LoisLane [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Congratulations S.D. 157......
Now, how many students are we sending to the National Honor Society?
Author:  chugar52 [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
oldtimer wrote:
Congratulations Dist.157 school board.....lowering the academic standards got you a State Basketball Championship


LOWERING THE STANDARDS?????????? Obviously you didn't read the article thoroughly or the article last week where it said that Board passed a policy where the children have to maintain a B average in order to play sports or participate in other activities. The State says that they have to maintain a C, but D157 raised the standards by saying the students have to have a B, not a C. Also, this article said that ALL of the students on the team maintaned a B average all year and 9 of the 15 are in Honors classes. All of the students recieved the ISAT award last week and most of them met or exceeded the standard in at least 2 out of the 3 areas they were tested on.
Author:  LoisLane [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Then I am sorry.....I guess congratulations are in order all the way around.

Pam Cap for Mayor
Author:  oldtimer [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
You didnt read it all the way thru Chugar....The supt can make exceptions for Effort what ever that is.....
Author:  chugar52 [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
The Principal can make an exception IF the child is trying their hardest, turning ALL of their homework in, participating in class, trying exceptionally hard to understand, etc. However, she didn't have to make any exceptions at all because the students ALL maintained a B average all year long. Even IF the Principal made an exception for a child one week, that is still what the State's standard is, so it's still not lowering the Standards. The exception is only for 1 week at a time. It is not for the entire year. You know as well as I do that sometimes a person tries their hardest but just doesn't understand a particular lesson. That holds true for children and adults.
Author:  funnyman [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
oldtimer wrote:
You didnt read it all the way thru Chugar....The supt can make exceptions for Effort what ever that is.....


Oldtimer, I read in the paper I believe just last week, that the policy was changing as Churgar52 explained as far as considering exceptions, I think this basketball team was formed and went through the whole season under the old policy requiring the boys to maintain at least a B GPA. These same boy had only lost 3 game over the last 3 years under the same policy. You also questioned "the super can make exceptions, whatever that might be...." well, the article explaining the change in the policy was pretty clear in my mind and as Churgar52 stated, even with the change in the policy, the standards in D157 is higher than what the state requires, so it's very obvious to me that D157 puts academics first.

Gee, I hope I never have to change my screen name to old timer or something like that, seems like when you get old you only see the negative or try to make one up if one does not exists.

GOOD JOB SCHRUM 8TH GRADE BASKETBALL TEAM, THEIR COACHES AND SCHOOL ADMINISTRATORS, SMART ATHLETES AND GOOD ATHLETES. :smt038 :smt038 :smt038
Author:  chugar52 [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Actually the policy was changed so that the student has to maintain a B average. The previous policy was the same as the State statute of maintaining at least a C average. The Principal at Schrum has required a B average, although that wasn't the State requirement, but it could be interpreted that way since School Code reads at least C average. The policy was put in place because the main focus of the school is academics. The Board also felt it was a good policy to have because the children are students first. Sports and other activities are secondary to the education of the children.
Author:  oldtimer [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S.D. 157 - Leave It Alone
Sorry I got old......Sorry I got negative.... If the B average policy got a winner why change it.....to this exception thing....
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