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 Post subject: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:45 am 
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WLS radio blowhard Mancow Muller cried "uncle" quick when he was waterboarded in a radio stunt today.
Muller had insisted waterboarding as practiced by the US was not torture.
Imagine how much scarier it must have been for Iraqi prisoners who had no way of knowing if They would actually drown, unlike Muller who had EMTs standing by in the studio.
Then he thanks the Marines for doing such a good job torturing in Iraq.

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 9:53 am 
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When "waterboarding" (which is now the butt of all jokes) is demonstrated or used as a training excercise, the person it is being used on KNOWS that they will not be killed.

When used as an interrogation technique, on suspected terrorists, those terrorists do not KNOW that they are NOT going to die or it wil not be stopped. (although, no-one died as a result of the use).

Also, suspected terrorists themselves have gone through extreme training measures. That is why they don't just "surrender", as our president says b/c they feel like any measures "torture" that are used on them are a symbol of their dedication to the cause.

I don't feel that a "talk-radio" challenge is an equivalent to the measures used in gitmo. And, did Mancow actually say that it was torture? Or is that just your title to the thread? Just wondering.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:02 am 
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Cassidy asked him. Mancow said it was "absolutely...torture."

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:06 am 
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I would probably say the same thing....if it happened to me. But, I think if it would save the life of one of my children, my spouse or other family member, my country, our soldiers, I would allow it to be done in dire circumstances.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:15 am 
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Mancow said he still believes in waterboarding in Iraq. He said he has no problem with us torturing.

I believe he mentioned "Islamic Fascists."
My main problem is that the men and boys locked up in Gitmo had never been convicted of anything.

Not to mention I thought the US was supposed to be "better" than idiots like Islamic Fascists.

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:26 am 
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we are better, and I really cannot find a valid reason anywhere why these detainees havn't been addressed. I respect the president for wanting to figure it out, but, by setting a date in his second day of presidency, with no contingent plan for the detainees, I feel he has made a grave mistake that he probably won't win. It was the same problem bush had too.

But, these people were obviously brought to gitmo for a reason.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:44 am 
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But we don't know the reason, and in the meantime our reputation is destroyed.

There was so much BS involved in the Iraq war, it's hard to believe anything that is said by loyalists like Cheney, IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:54 am 
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Well, I for one, dont put too much into other countries opinions about the US's "Reputation". I understand that there is a need for international coalitions etc, but when it comes to the defense of our country, after me, they come first.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:07 am 
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CIA Waterboarding Produced Intel That Stopped Attack on Los Angeles
Wednesday, April 22, 2009
By Terence P. Jeffrey

“Soon, you will know.”

That is the ominous statement an uncooperative Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, told his Central Intelligence Agency interrogators when they initially asked him, after he had been captured, about additional planned al-Qaida attacks on the United States.

In March 2003, KSM became the third and final terrorist ever waterboarded by the CIA. The other two were Abu Zubaydah and Rahim Al-Nashiri.

So few were waterboarded because the CIA was so strict in the criteria for deciding when the technique could be used.

As CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo explained in a 2004 letter to then-Acting Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin of the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, the CIA would only resort to waterboarding a top al-Qaida leader when the agency had “credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent,” “substantial and credible indicators that the subject has actionable intelligence that can prevent, disrupt or deny this attack” and “(o)ther interrogation methods have failed to elicit the information within the perceived time limit for preventing the attack.”

Rizzo’s letter, as quoted here, was cited in a May 30, 2005, memo to Rizzo from then-Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General Steven G. Bradbury, also of the Office of Legal Counsel.

On Tuesday, the CIA confirmed to me that it stands by assertions credited to the agency in this 2005 memo that subjecting KSM to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation—including waterboarding—caused him to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.

The previously classified memo was released by President Obama last week.

Before they were waterboarded, both KSM and Abu Zubaydah did not believe Americans had the will to stop al-Qaida, the 2005 Justice Department memo says, citing information from the CIA.

“Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general U.S. population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals,’” said the memo. “Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon, you will know.’”

After he was waterboarded, KSM provided the CIA with information that allowed the U.S. government to close down a terror cell already “tasked” with flying a jet into a building in Los Angeles.

“You have informed us that the interrogation of KSM—once enhanced techniques were employed—led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles,” says the memo, referring to information CIA provided to Justice.


http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/a ... rcID=47003

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:42 pm 
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So sez "CNS News.com...The Right News, Right Now."

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Well, then let the president release the memos so you/I/all can judge.

so sez the Wall Street Journal

The Other Interrogation Memos
The ones that show results.Article more in Opinion »Email Printer
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President Obama spoke at length yesterday about balancing national security with legal protections, and intelligence secrecy with the need for accountable leadership. But on at least one point, he has the ability to please everyone: Release the still-secret memos that discuss the results of enhanced interrogation against al Qaeda detainees.

Mr. Obama has already released the memos that set the legal limits on interrogation, to much fanfare and (in our case) dismay. But he still refuses to release the memos that former Vice President Dick Cheney and others claim will show that interrogation yielded valuable intelligence that saved American lives. The CIA recently turned down Mr. Cheney's formal request to declassify those memos, but the ultimate declassification authority rests with the President.

Mr. Obama has said he's read the memos and found the evidence of intelligence success to be ambiguous. Fair enough. Let the American people see the evidence and judge for themselves. If Mr. Cheney is exaggerating this antiterror success, we should know. The fact that the Administration won't release the memos, and won't explain why it won't release them, suggests that Mr. Cheney is telling the truth.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Why the hell is Cheney driving the bus?
He was in a super-secret, classified hidey hole for 8 years when he was supposed to be the VP. Now he wants to run the show.
Sorry, DICK, the voters decided they wanted something way different. An administration without you or anyone like you in charge.

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:24 pm 
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Cheney is defending the honor of the United States of America from the lying, pandering scumbags that now inhabit the White House and Congress.

And just for the record, bin Obama is continuing to use many of the things the Bush Administration used in the War on Terror, including military tribunals, warrentless wiretaps, and have even talked about adding their own little icing on the cake by authorizing "preventive detention".....care to take a guess at what that means?

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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Flip-Flops and Governance
Our president isn't quite as advertised.Article more in Opinion »Email Printer

By KARL ROVE
Barack Obama inherited a set of national-security policies that he rejected during the campaign but now embraces as president. This is a stunning and welcome about-face.

For example, President Obama kept George W. Bush's military tribunals for terror detainees after calling them an "enormous failure" and a "legal black hole." His campaign claimed last summer that "court systems . . . are capable of convicting terrorists." Upon entering office, he found out they aren't.

He insisted in an interview with NBC in 2007 that Congress mandate "consequences" for "a failure to meet various benchmarks and milestones" on aid to Iraq. Earlier this month he fought off legislatively mandated benchmarks in the $97 billion funding bill for Iraq and Afghanistan.

Mr. Obama agreed on April 23 to American Civil Liberties Union demands to release investigative photos of detainee abuse. Now's he reversed himself. Pentagon officials apparently convinced him that releasing the photos would increase the risk to U.S. troops and civilian personnel.

Throughout his presidential campaign, Mr. Obama excoriated Mr. Bush's counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq, insisting it could not succeed. Earlier this year, facing increasing violence in Afghanistan, Mr. Obama rejected warnings of a "quagmire" and ordered more troops to that country. He isn't calling it a "surge" but that's what it is. He is applying in Afghanistan the counterinsurgency strategy Mr. Bush used in Iraq.

As a candidate, Mr. Obama promised to end the Iraq war by withdrawing all troops by March 2009. As president, he set a slower pace of drawdown. He has also said he will leave as many as 50,000 Americans troops there.

These reversals are both praiseworthy and evidence that, when it comes to national security, being briefed on terror threats as president is a lot different than placating MoveOn.org and Code Pink activists as a candidate. The realities of governing trump the realities of campaigning.

We are also seeing Mr. Obama reverse himself on the domestic front, but this time in a manner that will do more harm than good.

Mr. Obama campaigned on "responsible fiscal policies," arguing in a speech on the Senate floor in 2006 that the "rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy." In his acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention, he pledged to "go through the federal budget line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work." Even now, he says he'll "cut the deficit . . . by half by the end of his first term in office" and is "rooting out waste and abuse" in the budget.

However, Mr. Obama's fiscally conservative words are betrayed by his liberal actions. He offers an orgy of spending and a bacchanal of debt. His budget plans a 25% increase in the federal government's share of the GDP, a doubling of the national debt in five years, and a near tripling of it in 10 years.

On health care, Mr. Obama's election ads decried "government-run health care" as "extreme," saying it would lead to "higher costs." Now he is promoting a plan that would result in a de facto government-run health-care system. Even the Washington Post questions it, saying, "It is difficult to imagine . . . benefits from a government-run system."

Making adjustments in office is one thing. Constantly governing in direct opposition to what you said as a candidate is something else. Mr. Obama's flip-flops on national security have been wise; on the domestic front, they have been harmful.

In both cases, though, we have learned something about Mr. Obama. What animated him during the campaign is what historian Forrest McDonald once called "the projection of appealing images." All politicians want to project an appealing image. What Mr. McDonald warned against is focusing on this so much that an appealing image "becomes a self-sustaining end unto itself." Such an approach can work in a campaign, as Mr. Obama discovered. But it can also complicate life once elected, as he is finding out.

Mr. Obama's appealing campaign images turned out to have been fleeting. He ran hard to the left on national security to win the nomination, only to discover the campaign commitments he made were shallow and at odds with America's security interests.

Mr. Obama ran hard to the center on economic issues to win the general election. He has since discovered his campaign commitments were obstacles to ramming through the most ideologically liberal economic agenda since the Great Society.

Mr. Obama either had very little grasp of what governing would involve or, if he did, he used words meant to mislead the public. Neither option is particularly encouraging. America now has a president quite different from the person who advertised himself for the job last year. Over time, those things can catch up to a politician.


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 Post subject: Re: Mancow admits Waterboarding is Torture.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:20 am 
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freetime wrote:

Not to mention I thought the US was supposed to be "better" than idiots like Islamic Fascists.


The US is better!.....some people are just too stupid to see that because their messiah is filling their heads with all sorts of negativity about this country...

Ya know him .... the one with the wife who was NEVER proud of this country her whole adult life until this hustler took office with the help of those useful idiots...

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