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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:51 pm 
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No one forces anyone to work anywhere. My uncle died of black lung. He was a coal miner. He chose this profession because it paid good. While there should be safety standards for all workers, they need to be reasonable. Cigarrette smoke is nothing compared to the crap we breathe every day around here, courtesy of the mills.

IF tobacco is so downright dangerous, then let the government ban it. While they are at it, ban perfumes, cleaners, vehicles, foods that are not healthy enough, clothes that might offend someone,etc. The government needs to quit being a nanny. :x


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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:58 pm 
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Tiger1 wrote:
Mirage wrote:
I have the feeling they probably would prefer to outlaw smoking period but settle for the next best thing since the states and Federal government make so much money off of unfairly taxing smokers and because we all know what happened when they outlawed booze with a Constitutional amendment. ;)


YEP !!! People brewed their own. When I bought my old house on Pine 35 years ago, I found the remains of a Still in the coal bin, hidden by the coal. Old bottles, corks, pieces of pipe, the whole thing. :twisted: Ban tobacco, and people will be growing their own, just like some do now for their weed. :twisted: Weed was legal until about the same time as prohibition.


Since you mentioned it, years ago I used to dump out my ashtrays into the flower bed. Suddenly tobacco plants began sprouting up. I was going to allow it to grow and try smoking it but code enforcement called it a weed, which essentially it is. So the plants had to go. I don't think any viable seeds are in today's blend. Still, I was starting to get excited not to have to pay $1.50 a pack even then. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:38 pm 
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Mirage wrote:
markh wrote:
Mirage, in both New York City and Chicago, most restaurants reported increased business after smoking was banned. I haven't heard what happened in other cities when they banned smoking, but I suspect the same is true.


I question that, especially in respect to Chicago. If a mom & pop restaurant goes out of business and the city attracts 2 more cracker box chain locations, like McDonalds or KFC, then technically that does count as an increase. And if there are 3 restaurants and one closes the other 2 could see moderate increases while the combined number of patrons could still decrease. So I guess my first concern with accepting such claims is exactly what factors were considered and what truly accounted for any increases reported. I am very suspicious of the intended claim that because smoking was banned everywhere people suddenly went out to eat & drink, especially when new higher taxes also became a factor as is the ongoing case in Chicago.

Personally I could not drink at a non-smoking bar. Many feel the same way. So I find it very hard to believe that NY bars would see more patrons instead of less. About the only way I even see it being possible is if there are just plain fewer smokers all the time. But I suppose there could be long lines of smokers down the sidewalk in front too. :D

Here is a link that talks about the economic impact of banning smoking. It seems that almost every study that linked lower sales to smoking bans was funded by the tobacco industry. In addition to that, none of the studies that purported to show business declining because of smoking bans were peer reviewed. In 2006, Indiana's Office of Economic developement suggested a ban on smoking statewide would create more developement in the state by making the state more attractive to businesses.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:04 pm 
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And that's the problem with survey data. Whoever is paying the bill almost always has an agenda, even if it's public money paying for it. You have to get into the nuts & bolts of the survey to see if there is actual value in the findings and what assumptions were made.

OTOH just because someone with an agenda paid for a survey doesn't always mean the data or the conclusions purported are wrong in and of itself. It just suggests which biases to be watchful for.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:06 pm 
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If they are going to push this, put it on the ballot and let the voters decide it

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:12 pm 
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mike3775 wrote:
If they are going to push this, put it on the ballot and let the voters decide it


They can't. It would fail.

;)

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Mirage wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
If they are going to push this, put it on the ballot and let the voters decide it


They can't. It would fail.

;)

And what do you base that on? Over 75% of the population doesn't smoke. Every non smokers I know are in favor of these bans. That's why over 50% of the people in the US already live in states that have complete bans on smoking in public places.Show me a politician who supports the right of smokers to pollute the air and I'll show you a politician show is about to be voted out of office.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:54 pm 
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With Obama in office it will probably pass.

You know how the liberals love to legislate morality.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:57 pm 
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sparks wrote:
Mirage wrote:
mike3775 wrote:
If they are going to push this, put it on the ballot and let the voters decide it


They can't. It would fail.

;)

And what do you base that on? Over 75% of the population doesn't smoke. Every non smokers I know are in favor of these bans. That's why over 50% of the people in the US already live in states that have complete bans on smoking in public places.Show me a politician who supports the right of smokers to pollute the air and I'll show you a politician show is about to be voted out of office.


Then what's stopping you from trying to get it on the ballot?

Now in FL it used to be fairly easy to make about anything a constitutional amendment, even to the point of absurdity, so they made it a little harder. But in IN I'm not certain what the process actually is. Perhaps a legislator would have to propose it. There has to be at least 1 legislator willing to take this on, so go twist an arm or two since you feel so strongly.

I don't buy your numbers and I'm pretty sure the tobacco industry will weigh in as well as some state officials worried about the loss of revenue. Don't forget! We even have part of the state tax going for health care for the poor. So even if I agreed your numbers were accurate I think in the end the thing would fall short at the ballot box. Just a guess, but a supportable one.

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If you voted for the Dems don't be surprised when things don't turn out quite as you were led to expect. Some might call it pure Marxism. But the problem with Obama economics is there's not enough money in the world to make it work.


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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:07 pm 
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born_again wrote:
markh wrote:
.

Having said this, IMO a person should be arrested for child endangerment if they smoke in a car that has children as passengers. I hope local governments enact such a law.


TYPICAL

I forgot, you just care about them when they are embryos, the hell with the ones that are on the Earth now.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:13 pm 
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Sparks you seem to have overlooked my initial post

Do you wear a gas mask when you step outside your house in Hammond to avoid breathing that fine pure fresh air after it blows over the BP plant and the steel mills?

Since second hand smoke is so toxic, I guess that brown haze that is seen miles away is from all the damn smokers right?



Put these types of things on a ballot, that way EVERYONE has a say

And do not use the excuse of the elected officials doing what the constituents say, because the govt still passed the $700 billion bail out even though the majority of the US was against it, so that excuse is out the door

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:32 pm 
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-={ARCLIGHT}=- wrote:
You know how the liberals love to legislate morality.

Like these:
Quote:
The State of Florida, controlled by Republican fundamentalists, has used its big government power to decide that a 13-year old girl, although she has clearly, repeatedly and cogently expressed her wish to have an abortion, cannot.

Quote:
Republican leaders in Congress push their anti-gambling morality. The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 was rammed through Congress by the Republican leadership

Quote:
"The Congress and the states shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States". This was proposed by the Republican controlled congress.

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I will lock her up! (DIDN'T HAPPEN)
I will repeal Obamacare (DIDN'T HAPPEN)
I will make Mexico to pay for the wall. (NO...WE ARE)
I will surround myself with the best people! (MOST ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION)


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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:35 am 
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sparks wrote:
maddmaxx2 wrote:
hmmm wrote:
Hard to believe that this has not been discussed at all.

http://www.post-trib.com/news/1281130,s ... an.article

INDIANAPOLIS -- Smoking would be snuffed out in almost all enclosed public places in Indiana, including restaurants, bars, bowling alleys and casinos, under a bill a powerful state lawmaker plans to push in the upcoming legislative session.

"It is a public health issue," said Democratic state Rep. Charlie Brown of Gary, chairman of the House Public Health Committee. He said his primary aim is protecting the health of nonsmokers who work in places where smoking is allowed
Too bad, they knew the job was dangerous when they took it.

Idiot legislators. What's next? Anyone who works around anything hazardous demanding the company stop using hazardous stuff because it's hazardous?

Actually, companies are required by law to have MSDS sheets for any hazardous substances that employees come in contact with. I am struck by the irony of a man who is dying from lung cancer railing against laws that protect the health of workers.
I will never know if it was cigarettes, where I live (I had two lead industries within a mile, one to the North and one to the West) or one of the many industries I worked in. I remember at an oil refinery they told me that Xylene cuts right through the gook and to wash my hands with it. Worked great.

Health effects
Xylene exhibits neurological effects. High levels from exposure for acute (14 days or less) or chronic periods (more than 1 year) can cause headaches, lack of muscle coordination, dizziness, confusion, and changes in one's sense of balance[citation needed] . Exposure of people to high levels of xylene for short periods can also cause irritation of the skin, eyes, nose, and throat, difficulty in breathing and other problems with the lungs, delayed reaction time, memory difficulties, stomach discomfort, and possibly adverse effects on the liver and kidneys. It can cause unconsciousness and even death at very high levels (see inhalants). Xylene or products containing Xylene should not be used indoors or around food.

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:42 am 
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Tiger1 wrote:
No one forces anyone to work anywhere. My uncle died of black lung. He was a coal miner. He chose this profession because it paid good. While there should be safety standards for all workers, they need to be reasonable. Cigarrette smoke is nothing compared to the crap we breathe every day around here, courtesy of the mills.
YES, EXACTLY!And the many other industries that are moving to Indiana because we have a cap on torts. There are also laws on the books giving corporations permission to experiment on all of us without our knowledge or permission. WTF is up with that? again, We the People NOT being vigilant enough!

Tiger1 wrote:
IF tobacco is so downright dangerous, then let the government ban it. While they are at it, ban perfumes, cleaners, vehicles, foods that are not healthy enough, clothes that might offend someone,etc. The government needs to quit being a nanny. :x
Lock and load, let's get this over with while I'm still here to enjoy the victory!

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 Post subject: Re: State Wide Smoking Ban?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:46 am 
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Mirage wrote:
Tiger1 wrote:
Mirage wrote:
I have the feeling they probably would prefer to outlaw smoking period but settle for the next best thing since the states and Federal government make so much money off of unfairly taxing smokers and because we all know what happened when they outlawed booze with a Constitutional amendment. ;)


YEP !!! People brewed their own. When I bought my old house on Pine 35 years ago, I found the remains of a Still in the coal bin, hidden by the coal. Old bottles, corks, pieces of pipe, the whole thing. :twisted: Ban tobacco, and people will be growing their own, just like some do now for their weed. :twisted: Weed was legal until about the same time as prohibition.


Since you mentioned it, years ago I used to dump out my ashtrays into the flower bed. Suddenly tobacco plants began sprouting up. I was going to allow it to grow and try smoking it but code enforcement called it a weed, which essentially it is. So the plants had to go. I don't think any viable seeds are in today's blend. Still, I was starting to get excited not to have to pay $1.50 a pack even then. LOL
It's legal and I had been looking into buying seeds. A years worth of tobacco would cost about $15.

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