Northwest Indiana Discussion

Northwest Indiana's Leading Discussion Forum
It is currently Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:21 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 4:59 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: 41.614167°, -87.546389°
The Daily Herald wrote:
Libertyville firm stops wind turbine in response to noise complaints
By Russell Lissau | Daily Herald Staff

Ken Aldridge, president of Aldridge Electric, speaks in May during the official unveiling of the firm's new wind turbine. The device has been deactivated because of neighbors' complaints.

A much-celebrated wind turbine that recently was installed at a Libertyville business has been deactivated because of neighbors' complaints.

The 120-foot-tall, three-bladed, energy generator at Aldridge Electric, 844 E. Rockland Road, was shut down earlier this week after Lake County Judge Mitchell Hoffmann signed a temporary restraining order.

That order was dissolved Thursday because company officials pledged to keep the device off while trying to resolve the issue with residents, said an attorney representing some of the homeowners.

"We have an open line of communication with (Aldridge)," said Rockford attorney Richard Porter, who has worked several cases concerning wind turbines.

The company's Lizzie Aldridge said the firm turned off the turbine voluntarily for maintenance.

"We do want to be good neighbors," she said.

The firm had said the turbine would save the company money and generate cleaner energy. At an early May ribbon-cutting ceremony, the device was hailed by politicians including U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk, state Sen. Susan Garrett and Lake County Board member Pam Newton.

But some area residents complained the turbine is noisy and has disrupted their sleep.

Porter heard the Aldridge turbine before it was turned off.

"I have never experienced this loud of a turbine," he said. "It is louder than (many) wind farms I've been involved with."

Porter hopes to meet with Aldridge officials for a mediation session this month.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:58 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 10483
And so it goes.


BWG, I've been to these places (windfarms) and I have a broad range of friends.

Wind turbines can be VERY loud.

When you factor in the damage done to birds (especially raptors like eagles, hawks, and owls (not to mention our nocturnal mammal friends the bats) then realize how much electricity they produce (coal and gas fired turbines in spinning reserve) the cost is unbelievable.

Don't get me wrong, I think it should be developed and refined. Lightweight metals and new designs can be allowed to flourish if the government would stay out of it. Let private industry do the work and someone, somewhere will step forward and say, "look what I've done" and get rich. Involving subsidized government funded "feel good" plans developed by people who have a vested interest in keeping competiton out is NOT the way to get this done.

:smt006

_________________
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" --Barack Hussein Obama
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:39 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:17 pm
Posts: 3800
BigWhiteGuy wrote:
sparks wrote:
There can definitely be a significant impact on adjoining property owners if wind farms are built close to them. However, in typical USMoron fashion, he lacks the intelligence to actually contribute any meaningful remarks of his own to the discussion. I have yet to read any criticism of the wind farms that are being built in NW Indiana because the communities they are being built in see them as a positive developement. They aren't close enough to affect the neighbors and the lease payments the farmers receive are helping the local economy with both income and jobs.

Here ya go Sparkles...case closed?
Quote:
Technical Director
written by Dan Fink , October 15, 2007
Hmmm....this is basically a small toy. Their math is OK, but it won't make a useful amount of power -- look at their own power curves printed on the site. Their claims about the disadvantages of 'normal' 3 bladed wind turbines don't add up either. Unfortunately, the facts are that wind turbines of *any* design perform very poorly when mounted on rooftops or below the trees (as shown on their website). Any wind turbine needs to fly at least 30 feet above anything within 300 feet, no matter what hype you hear--urban, rooftop wind turbines are like mounting solar panels in the shade. Solar panels are the way to go for urban areas, since most cities won't allow tall towers for wind turbines.

Average windspeeds in most locations range from 10-15 mph (4.47 to 6.71 m/s). The modal wind speed (the most common) at most locations, on a tall tower, is about 15 mph.
From their power curve:
http://www.loopwing.co.jp/images/00en/i ... pc1500.gif
, you can expect about 25 watts at 10 mph, and 75 watts at 15 mph. Ouch, that only runs a couple light bulbs! You'll get the rated output (438w at 2 m/s), at most sites that are 30 feet above anything within 300 feet, for fewer than 150 hours per year (ref: Paul Gipe, also NREL).

Just don't let anyone hype you into thinking a tiny wind turbine at rooftop level will make significant amounts of power--solar panels are MUCH better for that. In case anyone tries to scam you with their wind turbine output math, here's how to detect a scam:
Power available in moving air= 1/2 * air density (kg/m^3)* swept area (m^2)* wind velocity^3 (m/s)
then times coefficient of performance (cP) to get actual output.
They claim a cP of 0.43, far more than any other small wind turbine. I doubt it, but if you do the math, you'll see that such a tiny turbine won't help you much on your electric bills. The average US home in a good wind location would require a 23 ft diameter turbine flying 100 feet in the air to offset their power bill.

DAN FINK
Technical Director
http://www.otherpower.com/

Hey SFB'S, thanks for providing a link that shows how full of crap you were when you made this statement.
Big,StupidWhiteGuy wrote:
Like I told you many times before, the key word is WELL-SITED. To be efficient a wind turbine needs over an acre and MUST be mounted OVER 30 feet high
As I have said before and as your link shows, wind turbines that are mounted 30 feet above the ground are basically toys that will only power a couple light bulbs.

_________________
In the end, everything will be OK. If it's not OK, it's not the end.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:53 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 7910
Image

These things are in the middle of nowhere...noise?............................... what noise?

_________________
"Get government out of my Medicare!"- A typical conservative moron who votes republican


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:03 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:06 pm
Posts: 1471
Location: 41.614167°, -87.546389°
Big,StupidWhiteGuy wrote:
Like I told you many times before, the key word is WELL-SITED. To be efficient a wind turbine needs over an acre and MUST be mounted OVER 30 feet high
sparks wrote:
As I have said before and as your link shows, wind turbines that are mounted 30 feet above the ground are basically toys that will only power a couple light bulbs.[/b]

Every one of my posts state these must be mounted OVER 30 feet. Which word don't you understand?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:10 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 10483
Trolling little t*** wrote:

Quote:
Image

These things are in the middle of nowhere...noise?............................... what noise?


Good job..!!!!!!

Hedge has found the only wind turbine in existence and it doesn't make any noise.

But as we can all plainly see, it isn't even moving.

:smt005 :smt006

_________________
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" --Barack Hussein Obama
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:08 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:22 pm
Posts: 1435
Things in the middle of nowhere tend to end up somewhere after a period of time. Forty years ago, the south side of Munster and what is now Briar Ridge were pretty much nowhere. On top of that there seems to be a subset of people who for one reason or another ("bargain" prices, maybe) are drawn to buy homes near airports (hello, south side of Munster again....) or railroad tracks--and then promptly begin bitching about noise, danger to their precious offspring, whatever.

I think wind farms have great potential as well--but it will be great fun watching the so-called leadership of NWI bollix up whatever positive aspects they may offer the area.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:29 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:42 pm
Posts: 7910
Quote:
Things in the middle of nowhere tend to end up somewhere after a period of time. Forty years ago, the south side of Munster...

Sorry, that's a piss poor & ridiculous comparison.
If you've ever driven down US 41 & 52 you really are in the middle of nowhere. It's nothing but farms with absolutely no big towns or cities even remotely close.

It's not going to be any different 20 or 40 years from now.
Quote:
On top of that there seems to be a subset of people who for one reason or another ("bargain" prices, maybe) are drawn to buy homes near airports (hello, south side of Munster again....) or railroad tracks--and then promptly begin bitching about noise, danger to their precious offspring, whatever.


Now that's a great point.

_________________
"Get government out of my Medicare!"- A typical conservative moron who votes republican


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:35 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 10483
Yes indeed.

As we all know, things are the same now as they were 20 or 40 years ago.

No changes, no difference. Everything has always remained the same.

:roll:

Image

_________________
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" --Barack Hussein Obama
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:25 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:22 pm
Posts: 1435
edge540 wrote:
Sorry, that's a piss poor & ridiculous comparison.
If you've ever driven down US 41 & 52 you really are in the middle of nowhere. It's nothing but farms with absolutely no big towns or cities even remotely close.

It's not going to be any different 20 or 40 years from now.


I've driven those roads and seen the turbines. Kind of a neat sight. Lafayette/West Lafayette, while not exactly a thriving, growing metropolis, isn't all that far away.

Twenty to twenty-five years ago, Hammond was still a somewhat viable place to live. Probably 45 years ago, I'll bet few dreamed that in short order Gary would resemble the set of a "Road Warrior" movie. A little over 150 years ago, a good bit of Chicago was swampland. As anyone over forty probably knows, those 20-40 years can pass pretty quickly. I doubt that area will not look any different 40 years from now. I'll spot you the twenty.

Hey Snookums, are you still going to be as enthusiastic about wind-generated power if and when someone really starts to make money on it? Sooner or later, someone, probably a European White Male, is going to make a big advance in wind, or solar, or some other source of energy and clear a boatload of money doing it. When he does, are you going to piss and moan about wealthy fat cats like him? Right now, while you are sitting on your half-moons thinking about your next post, some smart guy is sweating over advancing a new energy source. Are you going to curse his initiative when he scores big and you are growing fatter and balder in while sitting in front of your keyboard or hanging on your cross?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:21 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:24 am
Posts: 2529
sparks wrote:
mattlap wrote:
Ummmm Sparky old buddy .... Do you even realize that both of these counties aren't exactly NW Indiana. They are much closer to central Indiana. Where is the economic benefit to NW Indiana?

Trade Winds Energy unveiled plans to build 200 wind turbines in Porter and LaPorte counties. In addition to boosting property tax revenues, the wind turbines generate revenues for the farmers who lease the land to the energy companies. Each turbine generates revenue of $10,000/year for the farmers. That money helps the local economy. Access to clean,cheap energy also creates economic developement. The countries that do the best job of generating power without destroying the environment will be the most successful economically in the 21st. century.


In your very first post you stated that Wind Farms have become a significant form of economic development for NW Indiana. While Plans of a development are well and good, they have not happened as of yet.

From living in Hammond you should have learned to not count your chickens before they hatch. People make many grand announcements about economic development that might or might not ever come to fruition.

_________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. --George Orwell

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:28 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:28 pm
Posts: 141
Maybe some of the brain power in this thread can enlighten me. Since some are quick to dismiss this idea, what is your solution to this problem and how are you helping to make this a better place? BEFORE you all pounce, THERE IS NO MALICE INTENDED. i just want to know.

_________________
Even for you, that's a whole new mountain of stupid.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:00 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:22 pm
Posts: 1435
George McFly wrote:
Maybe some of the brain power in this thread can enlighten me. Since some are quick to dismiss this idea, what is your solution to this problem and how are you helping to make this a better place? BEFORE you all pounce, THERE IS NO MALICE INTENDED. i just want to know.


Which problem? Alternative energy sources in general? Dragging NWI into somewhere in the late-20th century? Something else?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:23 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:55 am
Posts: 10483
LaughingAtLakeCo wrote:
George McFly wrote:
Maybe some of the brain power in this thread can enlighten me. Since some are quick to dismiss this idea, what is your solution to this problem and how are you helping to make this a better place? BEFORE you all pounce, THERE IS NO MALICE INTENDED. i just want to know.


Which problem? Alternative energy sources in general? Dragging NWI into somewhere in the late-20th century? Something else?



There is no question that the answer to our future energy needs is nuclear power.

Just axe the community organizer. He's telling the world that Iran has a right to nuclear power but he's axing the American people to build windmills.

Our Chimp-in-Chief is a flippin' moron. Nuclear energy is clean, efficient, reliable, and once past the construction phase it's also fairly cheap and it's what AMERICA needs, not what Iran needs.

:smt006

_________________
"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal" --Barack Hussein Obama
Image


Last edited by USMarine on Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Wind Power in Northwest Indiana
PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:56 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 4:17 pm
Posts: 3800
USMarine wrote:
George McFly wrote:
Maybe some of the brain power in this thread can enlighten me. Since some are quick to dismiss this idea, what is your solution to this problem and how are you helping to make this a better place? BEFORE you all pounce, THERE IS NO MALICE INTENDED. i just want to know.

There is no question that the answer to our future energy needs is nuclear power.
Just axe the community organizer. He's telling the world that Iran has a right to nuclear power but he's axing the American people to build windmills.
Our Chimp-in-Chief is a flippin' moron. Nuclear energy is clean, efficient, reliable, and once past the constuction phase it's also fairly cheap and it's what AMERICA needs, not what Iran needs.
Here is a list of the cost of various ways to generate electric power,along with their drawbacks. Of the traditional ways of generating power,ie, coal,natural gas and nuclear, nuclear is the most expensive way to generate electricity. It is also more expensive than all of the alternative methods,except solar. In addition to the high cost of nuclear power, it generates tons of spent radioactive waste, which must be shipped and stored safely. Nuclear power is an expensive,dangerous way to make electricity and will become obsolete as new technologies are developed. The countries that successfully find ways to generate clean power cheaply are the countries that will prosper in the 21 st century. The real moron in this debate is USMarine, who continues to post about things he doesn't know much about.

_________________
In the end, everything will be OK. If it's not OK, it's not the end.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group