Northwest Indiana Discussion

Northwest Indiana's Leading Discussion Forum
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:24 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Should Churches be allowed to be built in areas zoned commercial ?
Yes 20%  20%  [ 1 ]
No 80%  80%  [ 4 ]
See my explanation it's much more than yes or no 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 5
Author Message
 Post subject: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:26 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
You can re-vote .

Churches do not generate any tax money and they should not be sitting on any prime properties if any tax paying business wants to build there.

Whats your take on the subject?

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:35 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Whats the matter scared you may go to Hell?

Should a skeet shooting range be built at the end of Gary Airport runway?

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:39 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:08 pm
Posts: 9164
Location: Hammond
But wouldn't you be stomping on their right to freely practice their religion if you limited where they could have churches?
I agree about the taxes, however. How can communities be compensated for the services they provide churches without infringing on their rights?

_________________
"The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

_________________


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:43 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Top 10 Things Churches Need to Know About Zoning
A zoning attorney gives advice before you buy or build your next church facility.

by John Mauck | posted 7/25/2008


Zoning laws can prevent your congregation (whether by lease or purchase) from using land or buildings in many areas. They can also prevent you from expanding current facilities.

Include a "zoning contingency clause" in any real estate contract to protect your congregation from a financial loss if permission to rezone the property is not obtained by authorities.

Check zoning laws in advance. If you plan to purchase land or expand your present facilities, check with municipal officials before you shop.

Get legal advice from a lawyer well-informed about zoning and real estate issues.

Spiritual warfare can be a factor. If your church is building the kingdom of God, be prepared for opposition. Such battles are not won with lawyers, realtors, or money, but with prayer, fasting, discernment, gentleness, and patience.

Spiritual warfare isn't always the main factor. Don't over-spiritualize the battles or demonize those opposed to you. Neighbors worried about traffic, parking, lighting, or drainage may have legitimate concerns.

Most cities are not in compliance with the law. Our study of over 200 municipalities shows that more than half have no zone whatsoever where churches can freely locate. This is in violation of the federal Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000 (RLUIPA).

Cities cannot discriminate against churches. RLUIPA requires that "religious assemblies and institutions" must be treated the same as "non-religious assemblies and institutions" under zoning laws. This means anywhere a city permits a community center, theater, or other facility for non-religious assembly, it must also allow a church.

The city may have to pay your legal bills. RLUIPA allows a church to recover legal fees from a city if the church is damaged by a violation of RLUIPA. Pointing this out to a city may help avoid litigation and motivate the city to cooperate.

There's help. Most law firms that are part of The Christian Legal Society will provide free consultation for churches concerning zoning problems.

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:46 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Full Text of RLUIPA

June 2, 2005

106th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 2869

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AN ACT

To protect religious liberty, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000'.

SEC. 2. PROTECTION OF LAND USE AS RELIGIOUS EXERCISE.
(a) SUBSTANTIAL BURDENS-
(1) GENERAL RULE- No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation in a manner that imposes a substantial burden on the religious exercise of a person, including a religious assembly or institution, unless the government demonstrates that imposition of the burden on that person, assembly, or institution--
(A) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
(B) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.
(2) SCOPE OF APPLICATION- This subsection applies in any case in which--
(A) the substantial burden is imposed in a program or activity that receives Federal financial assistance, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability;
(B) the substantial burden affects, or removal of that substantial burden would affect, commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, or with Indian tribes, even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability; or
(C) the substantial burden is imposed in the implementation of a land use regulation or system of land use regulations, under which a government makes, or has in place formal or informal procedures or practices that permit the government to make, individualized assessments of the proposed uses for the property involved.
(b) DISCRIMINATION AND EXCLUSION-
(1) EQUAL TERMS- No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation in a manner that treats a religious assembly or institution on less than equal terms with a nonreligious assembly or institution.
(2) NONDISCRIMINATION- No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation that discriminates against any assembly or institution on the basis of religion or religious denomination.
(3) EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITS- No government shall impose or implement a land use regulation that--
(A) totally excludes religious assemblies from a jurisdiction; or
(B) unreasonably limits religious assemblies, institutions, or structures within a jurisdiction.

SEC. 3. PROTECTION OF RELIGIOUS EXERCISE OF INSTITUTIONALIZED PERSONS.
(a) GENERAL RULE- No government shall impose a substantial burden on the religious exercise of a person residing in or confined to an institution, as defined in section 2 of the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act (42 U.S.C. 1997), even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability, unless the government demonstrates that imposition of the burden on that person--
(1) is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest; and
(2) is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.
(b) SCOPE OF APPLICATION- This section applies in any case in which--
(1) the substantial burden is imposed in a program or activity that receives Federal financial assistance; or
(2) the substantial burden affects, or removal of that substantial burden would affect, commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, or with Indian tribes.

SEC. 4. JUDICIAL RELIEF.
(a) CAUSE OF ACTION- A person may assert a violation of this Act as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding and obtain appropriate relief against a government. Standing to assert a claim or defense under this section shall be governed by the general rules of standing under article III of the Constitution.
(b) BURDEN OF PERSUASION- If a plaintiff produces prima facie evidence to support a claim alleging a violation of the Free Exercise Clause or a violation of section 2, the government shall bear the burden of persuasion on any element of the claim, except that the plaintiff shall bear the burden of persuasion on whether the law (including a regulation) or government practice that is challenged by the claim substantially burdens the plaintiff's exercise of religion.
(c) FULL FAITH AND CREDIT- Adjudication of a claim of a violation of section 2 in a non-Federal forum shall not be entitled to full faith and credit in a Federal court unless the claimant had a full and fair adjudication of that claim in the non-Federal forum.
(d) ATTORNEYS' FEES- Section 722(b) of the Revised Statutes (42 U.S.C. 1988(b)) is amended--
(1) by inserting `the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000,' after `Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993,'; and
(2) by striking the comma that follows a comma.
(e) PRISONERS- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to amend or repeal the Prison Litigation Reform Act of 1995 (including provisions of law amended by that Act).
(f) AUTHORITY OF UNITED STATES TO ENFORCE THIS ACT- The United States may bring an action for injunctive or declaratory relief to enforce compliance with this Act. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to deny, impair, or otherwise affect any right or authority of the Attorney General, the United States, or any agency, officer, or employee of the United States, acting under any law other than this subsection, to institute or intervene in any proceeding.
(g) LIMITATION- If the only jurisdictional basis for applying a provision of this Act is a claim that a substantial burden by a government on religious exercise affects, or that removal of that substantial burden would affect, commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, or with Indian tribes, the provision shall not apply if the government demonstrates that all substantial burdens on, or the removal of all substantial burdens from, similar religious exercise throughout the Nation would not lead in the aggregate to a substantial effect on commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, or with Indian tribes.

SEC. 5. RULES OF CONSTRUCTION.
(a) RELIGIOUS BELIEF UNAFFECTED- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize any government to burden any religious belief.
(b) RELIGIOUS EXERCISE NOT REGULATED- Nothing in this Act shall create any basis for restricting or burdening religious exercise or for claims against a religious organization including any religiously affiliated school or university, not acting under color of law.
(c) CLAIMS TO FUNDING UNAFFECTED- Nothing in this Act shall create or preclude a right of any religious organization to receive funding or other assistance from a government, or of any person to receive government funding for a religious activity, but this Act may require a government to incur expenses in its own operations to avoid imposing a substantial burden on religious exercise.
(d) OTHER AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE CONDITIONS ON FUNDING UNAFFECTED- Nothing in this Act shall--
(1) authorize a government to regulate or affect, directly or indirectly, the activities or policies of a person other than a government as a condition of receiving funding or other assistance; or
(2) restrict any authority that may exist under other law to so regulate or affect, except as provided in this Act.
(e) GOVERNMENTAL DISCRETION IN ALLEVIATING BURDENS ON RELIGIOUS EXERCISE- A government may avoid the preemptive force of any provision of this Act by changing the policy or practice that results in a substantial burden on religious exercise, by retaining the policy or practice and exempting the substantially burdened religious exercise, by providing exemptions from the policy or practice for applications that substantially burden religious exercise, or by any other means that eliminates the substantial burden.
(f) EFFECT ON OTHER LAW- With respect to a claim brought under this Act, proof that a substantial burden on a person's religious exercise affects, or removal of that burden would affect, commerce with foreign nations, among the several States, or with Indian tribes, shall not establish any inference or presumption that Congress intends that any religious exercise is, or is not, subject to any law other than this Act.
(g) BROAD CONSTRUCTION- This Act shall be construed in favor of a broad protection of religious exercise, to the maximum extent permitted by the terms of this Act and the Constitution.
(h) NO PREEMPTION OR REPEAL- Nothing in this Act shall be construed to preempt State law, or repeal Federal law, that is equally as protective of religious exercise as, or more protective of religious exercise than, this Act.
(i) SEVERABILITY- If any provision of this Act or of an amendment made by this Act, or any application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held to be unconstitutional, the remainder of this Act, the amendments made by this Act, and the application of the provision to any other person or circumstance shall not be affected.

SEC. 6. ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE UNAFFECTED.
Nothing in this Act shall be construed to affect, interpret, or in any way address that portion of the first amendment to the Constitution prohibiting laws respecting an establishment of religion (referred to in this section as the `Establishment Clause'). Granting government funding, benefits, or exemptions, to the extent permissible under the Establishment Clause, shall not constitute a violation of this Act. In this section, the term `granting', used with respect to government funding, benefits, or exemptions, does not include the denial of government funding, benefits, or exemptions.

SEC. 7. AMENDMENTS TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT.
(a) DEFINITIONS- Section 5 of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 (42 U.S.C. 2000bb-2) is amended--
(1) in paragraph (1), by striking `a State, or a subdivision of a State' and inserting `or of a covered entity';
(2) in paragraph (2), by striking `term' and all that follows through `includes' and inserting `term `covered entity' means'; and
(3) in paragraph (4), by striking all after `means' and inserting `religious exercise, as defined in section 8 of the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000.'.
(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 6(a) of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993 (42 U.S.C. 2000bb-3(a)) is amended by striking `and State'.

SEC. 8. DEFINITIONS.
In this Act:
(1) CLAIMANT- The term `claimant' means a person raising a claim or defense under this Act.
(2) DEMONSTRATES- The term `demonstrates' means meets the burdens of going forward with the evidence and of persuasion.
(3) FREE EXERCISE CLAUSE- The term `Free Exercise Clause' means that portion of the first amendment to the Constitution that proscribes laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion.
(4) GOVERNMENT- The term `government'--
(A) means--
(i) a State, county, municipality, or other governmental entity created under the authority of a State;
(ii) any branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official of an entity listed in clause (i); and
(iii) any other person acting under color of State law; and
(B) for the purposes of sections 4(b) and 5, includes the United States, a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official of the United States, and any other person acting under color of Federal law.
(5) LAND USE REGULATION- The term `land use regulation' means a zoning or landmarking law, or the application of such a law, that limits or restricts a claimant's use or development of land (including a structure affixed to land), if the claimant has an ownership, leasehold, easement, servitude, or other property interest in the regulated land or a contract or option to acquire such an interest.
(6) PROGRAM OR ACTIVITY- The term `program or activity' means all of the operations of any entity as described in paragraph (1) or (2) of section 606 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000d-4a).
(7) RELIGIOUS EXERCISE-
(A) IN GENERAL- The term `religious exercise' includes any exercise of religion, whether or not compelled by, or central to, a system of religious belief.
(B) RULE- The use, building, or conversion of real property for the purpose of religious exercise shall be considered to be religious exercise of the person or entity that uses or intends to use the property for that purpose.

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:22 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
freetime wrote:
But wouldn't you be stomping on their right to freely practice their religion if you limited where they could have churches?
I agree about the taxes, however. How can communities be compensated for the services they provide churches without infringing on their rights?


They need not occupy valuable tax properties unless they want to pay tax on it I can't see buildings being erected in area where millions of tax dollars are being generated. In areas less than a square block.

I think it's just ludicrous that the topic has been allowed to drag on so long without any major American company or citizen using eminent domain to stop the building any undesirable structure around ground zero and building some sort of American Business there.

So What does that tell you About America?

The way it use to be is not the way of the American businessman who wants to thrive.

It took the Indian's a while to get use to the idea and the Japanese and the Mexicans What we use to call our Industry has many foreign investors and partners of all races and creeds

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Last edited by Geronimo on Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:59 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Donald Trump Offers To Buy “Ground Zero Mosque” Location, Investor Declines


Here’s a quote from Trump’s letter taken from Crain’s New York:

“I am making this offer as a resident of New York and citizen of the United States, not because I think the location is a spectacular one (because it is not), but because it will end a very serious, inflammatory, and highly divisive situation that is destined, in my opinion, to only get worse.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/donald-trump ... -declines/

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:22 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 2573
The thing is, the zoning allows it, so there is nothing to prevent it from being built. Plus there are also other churches in the same immediate area as well, so if they deny based on that, those others need to be closed as well.

_________________
Loves the fact he doesn't require taxpayer assistance to send his kid to college, and the kid will not need to take out financial aid to pay for school either


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:11 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Well said!

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:26 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 2573
I don't like the idea of a valuable piece of property being taken off the tax rolls, but unless the zoning laws are changed to prevent it, its going to happen again and again.

What scares me is how people are so against Mosques in general these days. You have the NYC issue, the Tennessee issue(which is surprisingly flying under the radar, considering death threats have been sent to the Mosque leaders), and I believe California where they want to build Mosques and the locals are against it, just because of the religion and no real reason at all

USA = Land of the Free(Unless Muslim), land of religious intolerance(unless you are Muslim), the melting pot(again unless you are Muslim)

_________________
Loves the fact he doesn't require taxpayer assistance to send his kid to college, and the kid will not need to take out financial aid to pay for school either


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:50 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 118
http://www.post-trib.com/news/lake/2684 ... 08.article

Gary council OKs church in Miller commercial area
Comments

September 8, 2010
BY MICHELLE L. QUINN, POST-TRIBUNE CORRESPONDENT

GARY -- Reversing a recent stance it's taken with regard to churches in commercial areas, the Common Council on Tuesday approved 5-2, with one absent, a church in its Miller-Aetna section.

New Beginnings Church was granted a special use variance for two years to lease the Miller Lumber on U.S. 20. The variance was presented favorably by the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Previously, the council has rejected churches in commercial areas on the grounds that those properties shouldn't be used for not-for-profit -- or more to the point, tax-exempt -- entities. The difference with New Beginnings on which the majority of the council voted, though, was that the church has entered into an agreement by which its responsible for rent, utilities and property taxes.

"We're not looking to be tax exempt," said church member Barbara Leek. "Wouldn't you rather have an occupied commercial property than an empty commercial property paying none?"

Councilmen Kyle Allen Jr. And Carolyn Rogers, however, referenced a different church that was to establish itself in Rogers' district. That church would've had the church in the basement and rented the upstairs as residential, and the residential part would pay property taxes.

"Whatever we're going to do, we need to define what (circumstances under which a special use variance for churches will be given)," said Councilwoman Mary Brown, who voted in favor. "We need to be consistent."

Councilman Roy Pratt implored residents to attend a press conference at noon Monday in Council Chambers with regard to the Sept. 16 Indiana Gaming Commission in which the council will ask to revoke Majestic Star Owner Don Barden,a two licenses. Among the things he'll discuss is a bounced check Barden sent to the city for some of the money he owes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:06 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:52 pm
Posts: 2573
LOL the church played them like a fiddle. I bet they will go to the state and get the tax exempt status for the property through the states Tax agency and then the council be upset but nothing they will be able to do

_________________
Loves the fact he doesn't require taxpayer assistance to send his kid to college, and the kid will not need to take out financial aid to pay for school either


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Zoning Should Churches Out Of Commercial Areas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:53 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 am
Posts: 3758
Location: Gary
Time will tell and everybody is watching and don't be surprised when your municipalities start drafting such legislation.

_________________
http://calumethighschoolgary.ning.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group