Northwest Indiana Discussion

Why am I not surprised.

Having experienced the events of this past week with among other things the actions of Congress and the President I'm certainly not finding less reasons to believe the Antichrist is alive and well today and living in the USA.

Along with the now known whole Congressional & Treasury involvement (and Sen. Dodd's initially lying about it) in the AIG, Freddy & Fannie, Merryll Lynch (of course you probably only heard AIG named) controversys over the executive bonuses (not to mention the House passing an illegal retroactive income tax to take the money back which perhaps may have only been a ploy to shift blame in the mind of the unsuspecting public) we also have the first ever sitting President on the Tonight's show and the President's public address to Iraq and the willingness of the administration to allow nuclear research allegedly for energy purposes in Iraq. We are seeing quite a convergence of events in a very short period of time.

Not to be overlooked in this consideration is the Congressional Budget Office said Whoops! our deficit numbers were off by $trillions (understand what that really means) and oh BTW then comes the monetizing of bad debt to further erode to stability of the US dollar and the further strains on worldwide debt markets to pay for it. What's more we have some criticizing the few state governors who have shown some fiscal backbone and tried to refuse parts of the so-called stimulus money which they deem to be not very stimulating to their economies. Ridiculed for NOT spending someone else's money unnecessarily? Again, these are the times we live in today.

As you will recall reportedly some banks & S&Ls really didn't want the S&L bailout money but claim they were subtlety pressured to accept the money anyway. Now we are seeing some of the same pressures on state governors to make use of every dime the Congress granted them, and to do so ASAP. Since when is it ever a good thing to make a government entity spend money quick?

Oh and let's not forget how the government is now scaling down workplace enforcement of weeding out illegal aliens. And while I might have previously bought the claim that there's been no time to address the illegal alien issue with everything else going on it seems the administration does have time to tell Sheriff Joe out west to stop his efforts to curb illegal aliens and Congress apparently has the time to consider extending union membership to include illegals. So they have not only had the time it would seem but have fairly quietly under the radar been moving us away from what the will of the people is on the question of the illegals. As I said years ago while Bush's proposal wasn't perfect in at least one form it was better than the consequences of not passing it. So here we are worse off and it will probably lead to open amnesty yet as a means to support NAFTA.

So if I am skeptical of some posters' rejections due to apparently blind unbeliefs of the possibilities and implications of what is going on today I feel there is more than enough justification for all to reexamine their beliefs in light of what is becoming more clear every day. You need not even have a belief in Jesus Christ to understand that the trend in Washington is not good for anyone, and certainly not for the American people.

As I have been saying, for whatever reasons the US currency is being destroyed and only a blind faithful follower of the Obama administration would see it otherwise. But as more civil liberties begin to be stripped away, such as one judge is attempting to do by unilaterally banning legally licensed gun owners from bringing their weapons to Federal parks despite written laws allowing it and the phasing in of requirement for everyone to carry an RFID chip which began during the Bush administration we must be ever more vigilant and ever more vocal about our eroding freedoms and liberties in the name of a greater good. While what is to be we cannot prevent that which we can do we should do. Nobody said we need to submit placidly like lambs to the slaughter, especially when our form of government grants us the right of peaceful protest. On paper at least, though that right to free expression seems to be dwindling by the day anymore.

I believe it was reported on the Glenn Beck show Friday on Fox News Network that government agencies are targeting supporters of former Presidential candidate and current Congressman Ron Paul on the pretext that 3rd party supporters are more likely to be domestic terrorists. Gee I guess it doesn't matter that he ran for President on the Republican ticket in 2008? Again, while the claim about 3rd party supporters in general may not be completely unfounded it's these subtle methods of attack on freedom and liberty that should concern us all. Funny how you can't profile blacks or Latinos or Middle Eastern Islamics but you can target Ron Paul supporters, huh?

While I don't always agree with the story line of some of these fictional post Rapture movies put out by various religious organizations over the years I can just picture your point of view reflected in a few of the roles portraying a denial or a too late revelation character.

I find it curious that you make mention of the forum used. I don't recall off hand why I used the Open forum originally unless it was because many secular issues and positions were being considered. That said, my previous post was indeed re-posted over on the Times board in the Religion Forum but it vanished in no time flat yet hardly anybody ever reads those boards anymore, much less threads in the Religion forum. You wouldn't happen to know anything about that particular thread deletion, would you?

I have no problem with you weighing in with your beliefs in this thread. That's what discussion forums are for! I just don't happen to share all of your beliefs.

It is written that believers would know the times and seasons of these prophetic events. I just happen to feel they could be unfolding before our very eyes because the time is right, the actions of our political leaders fall right into play as if they were scripted, and so far I find no evidence to suggest that the End Times are still far off.

I raise questions and possibilities here, not dogmatic summations. Notice the thread title is "Could."

But what I am failing to find here is reason not to challenge traditional beliefs or your claimed knowledge on how it will all come down. The time has come for everyone to examine why they believe what they believe and why they believe it. If you truly felt that Jesus Christ might really appear on planet earth tomorrow would you live your life very differently? Yet clearly the New Testament does admonish us to live as if that day were tomorrow.

Doubting Thomas had to stick h is whole hand in Christ's wound to believe it was Him.

I probably should double check but if memory serves it never says he actually did. Gotta watch those subtle errors there.

As far as Thomas I think he gets a bad rap. Earlier he had faith when others didn't. That doubting label was associated with him by men, not God.


You won't learn it in some Baptist church or on TV!

I would be careful of such overly negative generalizations there. While I see what I deem an unhealthy slant towards donations found generally within each and with each questionable beliefs can be demonstrated more often than not you cannot merely presume their positions are incorrect based upon the labels. However while some are better than others it is my belief that revelation can come from even an imperfect source.

It would be nice if the Christian community had it's act together and all were both correct in their beliefs and living in harmony but that has never been the case. The Epistles are a perfect example of how well intentioned believers can be wrong even with a direct pipeline to God, as is the fact that we have so many denominations and independents today.

Actually revelation can come from a donkey.

I was about to make one comment about Thomas but as I type this it occurs to me the intended archetype of that story is having faith in the face of reason to the contrary because who could possibly believe the dead could rise again, and especially after God had apparently abandoned Him by permitting such a horrible death.

How did the prophets teach the Word before they had it written down, that is to say before man had the gift of documentation?

There is actually one school of thought that written language existed as far back as Seth when he ruled the earth. There is also a possibility that he built the Great Pyramid. So far I just find it interesting. But the point is that what we were told was more of an oral tradition may actually not have been the case after all.

So let me ask you this. Is the Bible any less true if it says an angel (a messenger) flew through the air and proclaimed the Gospel but meant that a satellite in low earth orbit transmitted the message via television and radio? My only problem with that is a lot of what is called Christian television seems more than a bit misguided in focus. Be that as it may you cannot deny the role of satellites in having spread the Gospel to the whole earth.

I am of the opinion that the truly miraculous overriding of the natural is at best the rare exception. Otherwise why would any Christian ever be sick? An actual angel well could appear for all to see but I find it far more likely that it was never intended for the reference to be fully understood until the time of the end.

Why do you think it says that the whole world will whore after Satan in the latter days just prior to Christ returning?

Even this early on a case actually can be made that people are whoring after President Obama. And before you go off the deep end over that statement what does whoring mean? Look at the deep pockets of Wall Street and corporate America and their contributions to Obama and the Dems in 2008, and now all these questionable bailouts and even how efforts were made to preserve the executive bonuses but then put the blame for them on the recipients when caught in the act. It all sounds very much like whoring around to me.

It will be nice when the Christian community has it's act together because Christ will be here. I do not belong to a 'church' according to man's definition. The walls will be falling from their buildings, and His People will be praising Him in the streets. Why would I want to follow imperfect sources when I have His Perfect Word? No one can know everything, but I surely know enough to be a part of the small remnant who will not be a whore.
You should double check because it is not a subtle error. Thomas is representative of people like you who say they believe but can't get enough proof to satisfy your flesh.

'revelation can come from even an imperfect source'. Your definition of imperfect is quite different than mine. Baptist, Catholic, take your pick because most mainstream churches of today do not teach the complete truth. They have candied it over teaching with their commentaries about one verse. They don't teach precept upon precept. Mucho knowledge lost because of it. Most Christians don't know enough of the real Truth to save themselves. Back in the day, there were certain Scriptures read before the people at certain times of the year, and the Scriptures are one year worth of lessons when it is taught correctly. Some proof for that is this:

How did the prophets teach the Word before they had it written down, that is to say before man had the gift of documentation? The Word of God is written in the stars. The seasons present different constellations at different times. Check out this remnant scholar's work. It is very enlightening:

http://philologos.org/__eb-tws/default.htm

Many people are being deceived by churches today. There is a reason God will begin His Judgment at the pulpit. There should not be so many people, especially Christians, who don't know the Truth, and there are many of you. Why do you think it says that the whole world will whore after Satan in the latter days just prior to Christ returning? Why do you think God said His People perish for lack of knowledge? God is not 'careful of overly negative generalizations' and neither am I.

It will be nice when the Christian community has it's act together because Christ will be here. I do not belong to a 'church' according to man's definition. The walls will be falling from their buildings, and His People will be praising Him in the streets. Why would I want to follow imperfect sources when I have His Perfect Word? No one can know everything, but I surely know enough to be a part of the small remnant who will not be a whore.

I'm not sure that it will. Short of persecution this is probably about as "Christian-like" as the church will ever be as we stand at the edge of Israel reclaiming it's previously failed role as missionaries to the world in the BC era.

While at times the Christian church has thrived it has never been perfect, no not even when it had the Apostle Paul to set it straight. But it is not necessary for a Christian to know everything or have every prophetic event figured out perfectly. The important part is the available redemption of mankind yet some who call themselves Christians don't seem to even understand that or what it truly means.

While it's not a requirement of Salvation to be a regular church attender it is very dangerous to go it on your own. But to claim a more perfect revelation merely based upon text from an antiquated translation to English alone is just plain foolish, especially in the light of so many tools available today. But has often been cited metal sharpens metal meaning that without interaction you'll just grow dull and eventually unusable.

I was viewing a video link Madd Maxx had for another topic and thought the clips used in the first two minutes seem to apply pretty well to the discussion of this topic.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5025800195